But what if there are better, more efficient ways of “communicating some aspect of what it means to be human” even within the realm of art, than a process of “selective recreation of reality”? What if these better ways can easily be achieved by defining and redefining the existential values of art itself, like the first modernists did?
If there were better and more efficient ways of “communicating some aspect of what it means to be human” that would be true . But saying the early modernists achieved that does not make it so . They achieved nothing of the kind . What do you think it means to define and redefine the existential values of art? They are no more than meaningless words your are using and then acting as though they have some special meaning…which they do not.
· Rose petals floating in a basin.
· Waves crashing on the shore.
· A drop of dew on a flower.
· A drop of blood on a white piece of paper might be pretty and momentarily interesting (like a Rothko painting).
These are all things that we might experience in reality, and that actually have an aesthetic effect. But they are not art.
Before making bold statements like that, one should define the words “aesthetic” and “art” first. It is naïve to state that aesthetic experiences are mere effects. Aesthetic experiences in art are essentially intentionalistic, unlike the beauty found in nature. These aesthetic values cannot be compared.
It is a typical tactic used by modernists with empty arguments, to call “naïve” those with whom they disagree. “intentionalistic” qualities neither makes it aesthetic, and even if some aesthetic sense is achieved it does not make it art . So the intentionality changes nothing . Neither a drop of dew on a flower, nor a purposely painted square of orange on a brown background, are works of art regardless of whether they have any aesthetic qualities or not.
If beauty in art and beauty in nature are the same, why does art exist? Why not settle for the imminent beauty of nature and forget about the second hand beauty of art? Furthermore: how can anyone “express an idea”, “fictionalize reality”, and chase the beauty of nature at the same time? I do not really understand what “fictionalizing reality” means, anyway.
Beauty in nature and beauty in art are not the same, nor did I ever say they were the same, nor are they the same according to the words of Brian Yoder above . Because you don’t understand what “fictionalizing reality” means, doesn’t mean the term is meaningless . It means you are not knowledgeable of the meaning’s of those words . It means that the image in the work of art is “made up” like a story which used occurrences which never really happened in order to symbolize an idea, thought, value, belief, or emotion.
Does this mean that beauty in nature is a necessary quality of natural objects, and beauty in art is a quality of selected and arranged human experiences, combined with a certain level of craftsmanship? Does this not imply intentionality? One might state that the selection of experiences of which we are speaking, is a reflection of the artists personality or the culture in which the artist works It might be true, that on a certain moment in culture, the artists experiences tend to move away from natural objects and towards cultural intersubjective meaning . If that is the case, a mere depiction of carefully selected “natural” phenomena will no longer be sufficient to serve the artist’s intentionalist needs . The artist, at first, searches for meaning and experience in his own mind, hence expressionism. After that, the artist forms concepts of atavistic experiences and expresses those concepts in a far more efficient and overwhelming object of art than the copyist of natural phenomena. This is conceptual art.
The abstract artist does no such thing. Even if atavistic experiences needed to be expressed, they could only be expressed via realism. Just because you say the such formed concepts are being expressed doesn’t make it so. Show examples of such concepts or ideas. Tell me what they are in words and then how they are being expressed in a work of such art. You can’t do it, because in truth you are doing nothing more than using convoluted words with obscure meanings that can do nothing remotely like what you say they do.
They are selections of reality, only another, far more interesting, reality than nature. They are meaningful in a conceptual way, not in a pictional way, because pictional beauty cannot hold its own against real nature .
They are a form of reality, and if you find a blob of paint or even many blobs interesting, then you have the right to like that sort of thing, but they have no meaning other than the most primitive sorts like “red” or “blue” or many or few of dark or light. These are hardly the sorts of “concepts” that sophisticated and educated people are likely to find interesting.
Secondly, because paintings of reality cannot be as beautiful as nature itself. Does not mean that such works which capture how mankind feels about real things are not worthwhile and should not be made. Furthermore there are many things that occur in nature that can be observed except fleetingly, and fine art can “freeze” them for further study and appreciation.
Saying that a painting is about painting itself means that it defines the way painting communicates with its audience . Conceptual art is about communicating concepts . Complicated concepts must be communicated to the audience using complicated media.
Please, give me some examples of complicated thoughts expressed by abstract expressionist painting . You can’t because there are none . You can express
Red vs . yellow
Big vs . small
Few vs . many
Straight vs . crooked
Etc.
If communication would be on today’s conceptual level millennia ago, people would have been able to communicate complicated concepts through art.
What complicated concepts??? Name some . Name one.
In 1910, just after the appearance of abstract art, formalists (modernists) stated the following: How is it, that a still-life by Rembrandt contains more artistic quality than a still life by an amateur, even if the depicted objects in the still-life is the same? Is there a quality in the artist, if you like the reason of beauty, a talent, which is not about the depicted picture but about the way the painting is done? If so, the picture is of no essence to the quality . Why not leave the picture behind, and concentrate on the talents of the artist that obviously generate the quality of an artwork? (they called these talents ‘significant form’, being the relation between forms, colors and lines)
The quality that one finds in the artwork by Rembrandt is better because the quality derives from the ability of the artist to successfully communicate the subjects or themes, which in this case are the objects in the still life, and to do so with homogeneity and grace such that all points in the canvas harmonize with each other while enabling the viewer to successfully suspend disbelief .
Calling these “…talents ‘significant form’…” does not make them significant at all.
You cannot “leave the picture behind” because without the picture, there is no theme, and without the theme there can be no harmony between subject and technique which is the essence of the quality as well as the artistry.
Sir, you are using the same sort of ‘Artspeak’ which has for generations beguiled our youth into submitting to intimidation of prestige suggestion when someone of “authority” tells them what they should think or believe . But your words are inarticulate, convoluted claptrap, and still as meaningless as the art which they purport to justify, deriving their meaning solely by incestual claims of value by virtue of the fact that you are telling us that they have value and that they express complex concepts, none of which you seem able to describe or exemplify . I respect your willingness to attempt to debate me, and if you are able to muster arguments that merit further consideration, I will be only too happy to respond again.
Fred Ross
Chairman,
Art Renewal Center,
100 Markley Street, Port Reading, NJ 07064
Http://www.artrenewal.org